The Decline - Bennett Broadcast Ep. 13

Hi, welcome to the Bennett broadcast. Matt Bennett here. Thank you so much for joining. Really great to have you part of this. Did you know that every year in the United States a million people come to faith in Jesus Christ? But at the same time, we lose two to three million people every year from the faith. So we have a net loss of a million people. And this has been happening not just last year, but year after year for many decades. And that's what this Bennett broadcast is about. It's the decline. And it's not the greatest news, but it's important to look at this very soberly and to know what is happening spiritually in the United States because only then will we really gather up ourselves, focus and do what's needed to be done to see that that changes. And it can change in the United States history. There have been some incredible upswings of faith. And it can happen again, but we got a soberly look at that reality and not simply tell ourselves that bad things aren't happening. So what I'm going to do is just look at a number of statistics, data, facts that describe the spiritual makeup of the United States over the last number of decades. And so you can look and see that you will know that this is the case. I find a lot of people, Christians, excuse me, really resist this. I think they because they want to be encouraged. There is encouragement, but the encouragement comes in that God is good and that he'll help us. He'll get us out of it. He always does. There's so many stories of this in the Bible. That's where, but it's not in denying the state of spiritual affairs and pretending something is good when it's not good at all. It's like any good doctor, you got to soberly assess where the patient is and don't tell yourself it's not cancer if it's cancer, but there might be treatment for it in which case that's good on a regimen unless take care of it. But telling yourself, we're telling the patient that they don't have cancer because it might upset them or you want to encourage them is a terrible, terrible way to go. But it's what we do in the body of Christ. But once we get a good and sober diagnosis, we can also look at and say there is a way out of it just as a lot of not all cancers, but some cancers or some treatments, you can be completely free of it and over time and live a regular life. And that's the case of the spiritual state of the United States. So this is episode 13 entitled to decline. All right. I'm going to have a few slides. We'll be looking at here. If you're listening this instead of watching it, I'll describe the slides for you, the the graphs. So don't worry about it, but those who can see the video, hopefully you'll be able to read these slides. Okay. So the first one I want to look at this came out just a couple of years ago and it's it's about pretty much the spiritual state of the United States from 2007 to about 2020. And this was done by Pew Research Center. And what I'm highlighting here before us is two measures. When they take surveys, they measure a lot of different aspects of religious life. We'll look at some other statistics agencies or survey groups as well. But this is measuring here the number of people who have openly said that they are Christian. And back around 2007, that was about 78% of the population in the United States. Now it's about 65% or not now. This was five years ago. This is being recorded 2020 of four end of 2024, almost 2025. So this is up to 2019. So and yes, it's dropped since then. But you see a decline from 78% to 65%. That's been the loss of many millions of people in the United States who used to say they were Christian and now say they are not Christian. And you'd also expect this ratio to go along with it and those who will say they're religiously unaffiliated. And that was about 16% in 2007. And now it's up to 26% as of 2019. So you see an increase there of many saying that they're not religiously affiliated of anything. So this is hard data. It is asking people their self-reporting of whether they would consider themselves Christian. And this is an important marker certainly it matters whether they will say that about themselves person whether there's a Christian or not. So this is the first study we're looking at is by the Pew Research Center, millions of fewer people in the United States even willing to say that they are Christian. But I want you to get a robust understanding of what's happening. So we're looking at a number of different surveys. By the way, just so you know, all the surveys show the same thing whether you're looking at Barna or Gallup or we're about to look at the National Opinion Research Center or Pew. They all say the same thing. I'm just showing you a few of them so you'll be persuaded that this isn't the case and I'm not kind of selectively cherry picking or something to make a point. This is the case. Now this next study we are looking at is by the National Opinion Research Center and they do something called the General Social Survey. They do it every year. You can go to the website. You just pull it up just type it in General Social Survey and it'll come up and you can see all the trends that's all on the website. You have all section on religion and spirituality. So you don't have to wait till they publish. They've just published it normally every year. So in this study we see that back in 1970 about 10% of Americans said that they never attended church or rather religious services. So only 10% of Americans said that they never attended religious services. Now today of 2024 that number is up to 34%. So a radical increase from 10% over the decades, the 234% and the line just continually goes up over time. A people who never attended church. Of course some attend like a couple times a year, some every week, some once a month and there questions for that and you see the same trajectory for all of us. So that's an increase of many millions of people who never ever attend religious services and there's a few percentage of Jewish people in the United States and then some more religions as people immigrate for the vast majority in America or Christian or nothing or New Age or something not an organized religion per se. So that should be extremely sobering. Now during that time all these decades, now I've been in ministry since about 1990. So it's been decades is that there have been a lot of Christian initiatives, a lot of Christian programs and books and movies and declarations that revival is here. Yet if you look at the data every year, there are fewer people going to church than the year before for the United States of America. I'm going to look at another slide too and this is important. This is put out by Pew Research Center because sometimes when people look at this data, people don't accept it and I'm talking about Christians and sometimes it's because of availability bias or by anecdotes that is what they're just exposed to and so the assumption is what I'm seeing or what I read is what's happening spiritually. But a lot of times news organizations and magazines, they put out information that are it is encouraging because people will read that and they want to see that even though it doesn't really represent what's happening overall at some kind of anecdotal story. Because again, a million people are coming to faith in the United States every year and that's by the way it's people who grow up in Christian homes and maybe they get to teenage years and they make up profession of faith or they have a more radical adult conversion like the Apostle Paul. I have a number of friends and maybe this was you who that happened to. So that's the million who come to faith every year in the United States. But we lose two to three million some pass away and others just leave the faith or they deconstruct what some people call it or they apostasize or they just stop going to church and no longer consider themselves Christians. That's two to three million every year. And then this next data I'm putting up here for those who can see it but I'll say it verbally is showing that this isn't isolated. This decline isn't isolated. It's not as like it's just this part of the country or it's just this race of people or it's just men or it's just Republicans or Democrats or something. Every category over the years seeing this decline every single one. And we got to face that because I think sometimes in our own church or something maybe we go to a church plan or some new church and we see people come to faith and the church is growing nor excited about it and that's great but we're still losing overall more than we're gaining because people and other churches are just stop going to church or a lot of the church growth that you have. Most of the vast majority is transfer growth anyway from other churches. So they're declining and your one is increasing and again some people are coming to faith and as genuine as real they're part of the million but what about the two to three million that are leaving the faith. So this data shows that take men for instance this is over the time period from about 2009 to 2019 10 years and men declined by 12% those who identify as Christian and women declined by 11%. So men and women both have declined. Men declined slightly more but they both declined. And then you have people of all different ages. You have fewer people who are the oldest generation, the silent generation though they declined only 2% but in terms of percentage who identify as Christian but baby boomers went down 6% generation X went down by 8% millennials went down by 16% and it's not here on this graph but the next generation is losing people as well. Then you have people declining I'd not identify as Christian whites going down 12% black down by 11% Hispanic by 10% and then those who haven't gone to college those would just come let's say less than the college education 11% and those who are college graduates has gone down 13% so whether they're more educated or less educated still going down and then also all across the country the western part of the United States has seen a 9% drop that's been the least the northeast has seen the most 15% Midwest negative 10% South negative 12% so all parts of the country are going down and certainly some parts of the country are still stronger Texas and the South is stronger spiritually northeast northwest is weaker spiritually but they have this in common they've all been going down even in big cities even when you hear great reports of big churches and how they're growing and evangelistic campaigns and people coming to faith good glad that's a million coming to faith but overall every place is going down same thing with the Republicans and Democrats Republicans have decreased by 7% Democrats by 17% both are going down none of them are strong as they were 10 20 30 40 50 years ago in terms of identifying as Christian so it's all segments of the population I think that's really key to see and no it's not just some cherry pick small group it's widespread all across the country I want to hit something else too because this is something else that some people wonder about some will say and have thought that well what this is is it's just those who are nominally committed they're declining and so this is actually a good thing because it's only been only committed in their faith Christians anyway so it's just the true Christians and so things aren't really going down or maybe they're even increasing and things are good but that's not true either I want you dig down into the data you can see that it's stronger and nominal Christians that are declining in numbers so here some data that I have is from the general social survey and this is just an example of what's happening this was from 1985 to 2020 and the number of people who seen the Bible as a book of fables went from about 10% to about 22% now there's some others so that's up that's everybody but there's also different categories because some see the Bible as a literal word of God which is a stronger devotion to scriptures and those who seen it as inspired by not literal and those you would argue are not as among the devotes most devoted as those who see it as the literal word of God but both of those have declined and the trend lines are plain you go back to win the general surveys started taking this data and plot the line and they both decline at about an even percentage over time there have been even some books written trying to make the argument that this isn't the case or rather that it's the case that it's just losing the nominally committed and I've looked at their data and the data they put in there they don't cover the time span as long enough to kind of see the trends that kind of arbitrarily cut off begin and end to kind of give a false read so it's absolutely the case and another thing you can look at in a general social survey is those who consider themselves strong or somewhat strong versus not committed at all and a similar situation you have of course they're not committed at all increasing over the decades from the 70s to the present but you also have the people who would say they're strong in the faith strongly committed declining and those who are moderately strong or medium strong somewhat strong that's been declining too both of those declining so again the notion that is only the nominally committed that are leaving the faith is not true the data does not bear that out we've got a face that this is the truth you got people all over the country over the decades leaving the faith all people young people strongly committed less committed and this part of the country that part of the country it's it's the truth and we got to face it I want to spend a minute here too focusing on New York City and I focus on New York because I live in New York City and over time people have put out information saying that in Manhattan things have been growing spiritually and improving and this is not the case I spoken with some of those who stood up on stage and said these things and said plainly you should not be saying these things it's not the case I think sometimes people say it the things like even though it's not true because sometimes they want to encourage people or maybe it raises money or whatever reason it might be but let me take for instance a a Barna study now this was from and this was a study that was cited from public places here in New York City this is from 19 I think 97 until 2010 so a few years ago but the reason why this is this particular study was stated publicly was because it had some measurements that seemed like maybe things were good because you see the number who identifies born again and number of people saying they go to church has increased during that time and this is the whole New York matuary and not just Manhattan so in some sense you'd say that that's good however the exact same study it asks people if they agree with nine basic statements and they call it a nine point evangelical now the study in the survey never used the word evangelical it just says do you agree with these nine basic points and these points are points such as your faith is very important to you you believe that Satan exists you believe that salvation comes only through grace not works believing that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life basically basic statements that all Christians would have to affirm or else you're not Christian and so that was also part of the study and over the same time period it went from about three four percent of the population down to one or two percent of the population so in no way shape or form is that good so if a person checks the box and says they're quote born again but their belief about God and the eternal matters and themselves it doesn't even believe these basic statements they're not improving spiritually at all and the spiritual strength of the New York area clearly has gone down and something else has been set because there's been some research where people said in midtown Manhattan certain research was done and this was below Harlem 110th Street and down that's what they called midtown Manhattan and the phrase is that there's been an increasing number of Christians attending evangelical churches now I'm phrasing this very carefully because you phrase it the way I do just now then that's true there has been an increasing number of Christians attending evangelical churches however let me break it down for you what's happened is that a number of more orthodox good denominations started churches in Manhattan like Redeemer Presbyterian a big PCA church and that's fantastic and they do great work but what's happened is a lot of evangelicals those who were devoted to the Lord who went to more mainline churches like brick church and fifth avenue Presbyterian they left those churches to join something like Redeemer and I think it's probably for the best it probably got better teaching so that's good news but it's not that there that means that there's more Christians per se it's just that they've switched churches because the researchers wouldn't say that fifth avenue Presbyterian or brick Presbyterian or some of these other churches are evangelical and for that matter they also left Episcopal churches and others in New York given the decline of these mainline denominations people leave those churches and go for more orthodox church so it's not like that there's been an increasing number it's just that they switch churches and again we need churches that are more orthodox more true to faith so that's a good thing but it's misleading and thinking that there's a madness revival or upsurge in Manhattan I'm also in talking to some of the researchers I asked about immigrants and they also acknowledge that over half of those who attend these churches in Manhattan are immigrants or children of immigrants in Manhattan you have Chinese churches you have Nigerian churches you have Korean churches you have Latino churches in Manhattan and these people come in from other countries they're fired up for the Lord and they have dynamic churches and so again it seems like there's this upsurge and well in some sense there is you have these people who are Christians but it's not because you have a dynamism in the United States that is helping people to grow and come to faith in Christ these people are being imported into America now unfortunately what happens is that they learn American ways spiritual ways over time and they stop seeking the Lord with the level of energy and faith and their faith gets watered down in week unfortunately is what happens over time so it's a misunderstanding misrepresentation that there is this upsurge and Christian devotion in Manhattan not the case over the years so New York City more broadly and you know it's not like I'm looking to be a doggy downer here but we got to look at and we got to face the truth facing the truth is a beautiful thing that makes me think of I think it's called the Stocktail Paradox you might have seen this if you ever read Jim Collins book Good to Great they said great leaders and would do something they would be willing to face the brutal truth but then also find good ways of having optimism about they wouldn't lie to themselves about the situation and that's what we all need to do we all need to face that Stocktail Paradox docs that is we've got to look at what's really happening and then put our faith in hope where there can be true encouragement I think the story comes from an Admiral Stocktail who was a prisoner of war in in Vietnam and he those who didn't last being a prisoner of war were those who are always circulating rumors like we're going to be in three months or by Christmas where our release is going to be negotiated and then the deadline would come and they would just be so crushed and then again and then again and then again and those who lasted and did well was saying we don't know how long it's going to be and it might be very very hard but I know a long time but we've got I'm great military in time if it takes years it'll come about so it's facing those truths so we as Christians got to do the same thing we've got to look at the sober harsh reality we have been losing millions of Christians in the United States do we put our hope in telling ourselves that revival is here when it's not that's not where we put our hope because all that does is crush people over time now I've been in ministry since 1990 so I've seen all of these things come over the body of Christ and I'll just mention just a few but there's so many declarations by people sometimes Christian leaders sometimes lay Christians that revival is here and everything's changed and we're on the upswing they don't point any data but these anecdotal events that they tell things things are changed spiritually I remember the purpose driven life I mean it sold millions of copies that book it was fantastic one of the most sold books in the English language in history but it didn't bring about a change in the decline it good praise God but did it reverse the decline in the United States absolutely not then there's also in the movie years ago passionate the Christ an amazing movie by Mel Gibson showing that millions of people saw it it changed people's lives it was great people would say hey this is revival what's the precipice of revival we're on customer revival but did it change the overall decline of Christian devotion in the United States no it didn't also over time there have been a lot of prominent athletes speaking openly about Christ which is fantastic I think years ago Kurt Warner at the Super Bowl talking about his devotion to Christ and you have people like Tim Tebow more recently and you've got other famous Christian athletes who will speak openly about Christ I think Steph Curry I think Jeremy Lynn the basketball player in the next not too long ago others these happen and this is a very good thing boxer sometimes will stand up and after they win they'll give glory to Christ and this is beautiful and wonderful but this doesn't mean that there's been a change in the trajectory we're still losing every year more than we're gaining so take encouragement praise God we still see a million come to faith in the United States through events like these but it doesn't mean we're not still losing more than we're gaining there's also celebrities talking openly about Jesus and people bob Dylan years ago like the 70s I guess he had whole album on Jesus he had kind of his Jesus phase and then here more recently you have people like Justin Bieber and Kanye West declaring that Christ is king and you even have people like Russell Brand more recently and others who speak openly about Jesus and every person that speaks openly about Jesus is wonderful I'm sure these celebrity conversions some are genuine some are not just like everything else and that's wonderful and great but is it an indication or in that a direction that there's been a revival per se no and it's never been that way in history and America's great revivals of which there have been a number it's never been because of any of these things also some will on social medium or recently will point to quote spontaneous worship services and say this is revival or on the customer revival and it doesn't mean that and spontaneous worship services are fine people have big worship meetings outside or in a stadium or on a college campus something like that and that's great and people even have baptisms but it doesn't mean that outside in the ocean but that doesn't mean that revival has happened even though it's great remember a million to come to faith every year and that's a beautiful thing still losing two to three million sometimes people get behind certain political candidates and the recent election here people are feeling or sometimes people say this indication revival but has never been the case in the United States history nor in the history of the world that the election of a certain person to political office has brought in a revival never I've studied revival in depth for many many years and all across the world that's not the case is never because of that so certainly some political candidates are better than others when it comes to an ethical moral point of view and what can they be allowed for free speech or some other laser situations but no political candidate has ever been a significant part of revival in the United States or the world so what does bring about revival well the scriptures teach us and this is what you see in history it always comes about when Christians not the non-Christians but when the Christians seek the Lord wholeheartedly as the Lord requires that is not what we think is good enough but what he says is good enough the Lord and that means that self humbling ourselves and fasting really helps with that frequent and fervent prayer massive intake of scriptures deep and ongoing repentance faithful obedience strong community helping each other doing with other people and then persevering and seeking the Lord like this day after day week after week coming close to the throne of grace so this is what brings revival in American history and in worldwide history it's why Africa has gone from about 10 million Christians a hundred years ago to 550 million Christians today it wasn't because of all these things I just mentioned it wasn't because of books being published or movies being published and that's all fine it's because of a large number of Christians radically changed their devotion to the Lord and with fast and pray I think of in Uganda they had a fast worth 10,000 pastors fast in 90 days now it's a small country that'd be equivalent of like 100 to 200,000 pastors in the United States fasting and seeking the Lord for 90 days that is unbelievable that's fantastic now the the downside of of having this misunderstanding that revival is here this is indicating revival is that it distracts us and then kind of lulls us into a false sense well I don't need to make the sacrifice needed if revival's happening why do I need to change my life why do I need to repent of my sins why do I need to go to an all-night prayer meeting why do I need to pick up fasting and start that fasting is hard I don't need to do any of this because revival is here so you can see it's almost like a siop and it's a demonic siop is what it is and we've got to be aware of this because when you see declarations coming across social media now another meeting and there'll be one next month there's always something kind of going on look at this baptism's revival or outdoor praise music revival or whatever it is or this person testifying a celebrity celebrity comes to faith revival it's it's a demonic siop and I say that in the sense of not that it isn't always wonderful when every person comes to faith and when celebrities come to faith it's just that it doesn't mean that's revival it just means that the Lord loves us and still is letting us have some measure of fruit it's because he's not willing to let us completely go extinct as Christians yet in the United States so praise in the name we thank the Lord that but we also be very sober minded and say okay Lord thank you for all of this and now let us turn to you and seek you with great energy and devotion praying like crazy and so as a Christian what can you do well I'd encourage you to go to Daniel's spirituality without a org and adopt a lifestyle that the scriptures call for in terms of devotion the amount of time and focus Christians spend today in America drawing close to the Lord would be unrecognizable to Christians a hundred years ago or even maybe 60 70 years ago and especially 200 years ago 300 years ago absolutely unrecognizable because in those days everyone would go to have morning devotions and then evening family devotions taking 30 minutes to an hour everybody would take a lot of time and church on Sunday morning and evening but many would fast Wednesdays and Fridays which was very normal and then go on longer fast many would set aside days at a time to draw close to the Lord on the second grade awakening and the 1800s early 1800s people would leave their farms go away to a valley for a whole week I think of Caneridge Kentucky outside Lexington and 20,000 people assembly to seek the Lord for a whole week and going there it's not like they do just an hour in the morning and hour in the evening and then recreational activities during the day it's pretty much the whole day you're singing you're praying you're hearing messages you're praising some more you're singing some more you're it's it's really focused on the Lord and then incredible spiritual strengthening comes so that's where you can learn what is needed for a Christian to seek the Lord and it's why so much of the world is seeing revival because that's what they're doing in China in the Pacific Islands in parts of South America in most of Africa it's absolutely wonderful but we're being left out in the West in Europe and the United States so may the Lord help us to return to this we've got some of the best examples in the world and the international church know the examples they know the people in our history and learn from them and know better than we do so may we return to that and seek the Lord with that same kind of energy it means really dying to ourselves and going after the Lord but incredible blessings come when revival comes many many people come to faith miracles happen healings happen in increasing measure which is wonderful families restored husbands and wives get back together so many great things happen joy hope we'll see a radical decrease in mental health issues we'll see a radical decrease in suicides and overdose deaths all these different afflictions that we have on our society so much more joy and delight if we are willing to seek the Lord that way and it's up to us as the Christians our revival always begins with the Christians seeking the Lord the reason why we're not having the outpourings of the spirit is that the Lord is displeased with us we're not seeking him the level and the effort which he desires so go to those places go to Danielspirituality.org and take a look and if you want to help this movement go to christian union.org slash cornerstone become a cornerstone partner and help get this message out across the United States there will be no revival until a large number of the Christians in America seek the Lord at a greater intensity level as the Lord lays out and so this movement is about calling people to that giving people resources that encouraging people that way so that we can see great things for the United States I do believe we'll see revival but it'll only happen if we the Christians in the United States make those dramatic changes so I want to thank you for listening to the Bennett broadcast a much grace much love to you and the Lord is good I'm going to say a prayer Lord we love you and praise you Lord we worship and honor you Lord you are the great and good wonderful God thank you thank you Lord for your great mercy you are the God who loves us who blesses who strengthens us Lord you will help us in Jesus name amen all right thank you God bless over and out